Antique Tractors Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,701 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I need to change the points in a 560 gasser. Are those solid state point replacements any good? Would NAPA carry them?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,081 Posts
I have never used them, but have heard good things from people who have.
Most suggest replacing the coil with a "hotter" one, made for the electronic ignition.
My take on them is you never know when an electronic component will fail,
but you can look at your mechanical points and tell when they need replaced before you break down in the field.
Napa sells electronic conversion kits. They would most likely have them for your tractor.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,701 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Dave. :D The old 560 sits more than it runs and the points seen to oxidize fairly quick. :cry:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
395 Posts
a and i tractor parts sell them make sure you put a coil with internal resister in it i use them on cub and super a really makes a difference to both of them first one i did i put on wrong coil as i changed it to 12 volt was working on it went to house for 20 minutes came back ignition had been left on blow end out of coil and oil was boiling and smoking much longer it would have been burning in the shop
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
294 Posts
corn cob said:
a and i tractor parts sell them make sure you put a coil with internal resister in it i use them on cub and super a really makes a difference to both of them first one i did i put on wrong coil as i changed it to 12 volt was working on it went to house for 20 minutes came back ignition had been left on blow end out of coil and oil was boiling and smoking much longer it would have been burning in the shop
Can you give details on the differences you've seen with the electronic ignition?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
395 Posts
starts better more power plugs dont foul up seems smoother idle spark across tip is a bright blue snapping spark comparable to gm hei ignition i believe tsc carries them cost for moduale list price is around 130 dollars so it is fairly costly but we use tractors daily in growering season so down time and matinence covers cost quickly
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,499 Posts
being an engineer I have a bit of a different take on looking at the EI modules.

1, all they are is a solid state switch. using same supply voltage to coil, they should give you about the same spark as a WELL tuned breaker ignition system with new points, adjusted correctly. No magic.. no hotter spark.

spark voltage is a function of spark gap and compression. if it takes 8kv to jump a .025 air gap under 135psi AP, then that's when it jumps.. when voltage reaches that potential. don't matter if you have the ability to make 8.5kv or 90kv.. it jumps at 8kv.. PERIOD.

that said, if you live in wed areas and have constrantly oxidized poitns, then yes.. it makes a tangible difference. or if you are not the kind of person who knows how to maintain a points system.. same deal.

ei will not make up for a bad advance, though may help a small amount with worn bushings, as the halleffect sensor may still trigger fine, whereas worn bushings may cause irregular spark gap, and the issues that go with it.

ei come in 2 flavors.. smart and dumb. the dumb ones leave power to the coil as if points are closed if engie stalls and key is on, and can burn up / kill coils just like points do. Some of the smart ones will auto sense non running and power off.

run the correct coil combination with the ei that the manufacturer states. running a coil with too low of a primary resistance will damage the ei.

ei, on agerage, costs as much as 7 sets of SUPER PREMIUM breakers.. 11 sets of mid grade, or 23 sets of cheapies.

On average, I get 10 ys out of a set of mid grade points.. and 6 out of the cheap ones. The premium ones.. I have some with 13ys on them and no sign of going bad. At that rate, for me anyway.. EI is not worth it as an investment.. I won't live long enough to save money on a single ei vs just buying a decent + set of points ever 10ys or more. If I was 18 ys old? EI would pay off when i hit post retirement age.. :) :)

one other thing. ei are not robust.. similar to an alternator.

hook up your battery backwards and yer alt fries in about 400 nano seconds. I'd wager the ei will go about that fast too.

a genny / mechanical vreg, and points? they usually survive just fine. in fact.. points don't care.. genny don't care.. cut out contacts int he relay care a bit.. might weld.. but you can pop them apart and sand em, :)

lastly.. 6c vs 12v. If I was going for an EI system.. i'd think long and hard about converting to 12v negative ground first.

On ford front mounts, and wanting to keep the oem square coil? it's almost mandatory..

those ar emy observations from an electronics stand point, and a user / owner of both types of systems.

PS.. there is a hobby kit that uses your breaker contacts in a low current setup as a switch to trigger a transistor, that then fires the coil. if htis setup, poitns can last to the extent of their mechanical abilities.. ie.. spring and rubbing block life..e tc..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
395 Posts
being a farmer and being able to send workers out to field and know the tractor is running and not sitting broke down is more than worth the cost of the module my down time is consideably less since i used them
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,499 Posts
to which I'd reply.

" A properly maintained tractor with points is no more likely to be broke down than one with EI."

and

If my tractor with points DOES break down.. there's a chance a finger nail file will get me going.. or a spare set of 5$ tisco points....:) An ei goes out? get on the phone.. and order another one and stare at the tractor till ups shows up i a few days.... :)

BTDT to both options!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
395 Posts
in 2 days time you may have lost crop to weed growth
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,499 Posts
that's my point entirely! waiting 2 days for ups to bring you another EI may kill ya if you need the tractor today.

a spare set of 5$ points will get you back going in less time than it takes to eat a sandwich!

soundguy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
906 Posts
I had a set of points break, into two pieces, in a 390 Ford. Put me on foot! If it is made by man it can break.
In all fairness this was a set of "torsion bar" points Ford dreamed up in 67 that didn't have the same spring as normal points.
I have seen the points weld together and I have seen the contacts fall off, either way it's hard to start em.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,499 Posts
welded points and burnt points are almost always a symptom of some other problem, like excessive primary current, or open / insufficient capacitor, or too close a points gap, or key left on accidentally. this situations can also contribute to the contacts falling off, or spring failure, and bushing failure, though those latter issues can also simply be attributed to poor materials and workmanship as well.

i no longer buy tiso points sets for my tractors, though do have a few sets on hand as backups from ignition tune up kits. the rubbing blocks are a hard rubber or plastic and do not wear as good as the phenolic blocks, nor are they thermally stable as well.. sometime sthe metalic bases are bent or need to be tweaked to install or gap correctly, and sometimes cheap chrome palting flakes on them.. but then.. they are a 5$ set of points.. not a 20$ premium set.. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
906 Posts
Like you say Soundguy, those are symptoms of other problems. The points that broke were just a bad design and didn't last long. Oh yeah the rubbing blocks can break and that will put you to walking too.
If it was mine, and twelve volt, I'd convert to electronic and forget about it. Anything can break, including the electronic ignition, but there is a reason that all the manufacturers changed in the seventies.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,081 Posts
Hey SouNdguy ......phenolic blocks... Mica board?? :?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,081 Posts
Yep Mica board. ;) Even after it was made with polymers instead of mica, the industries I worked in still call it Mica board.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top