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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I already posted in member intro, but this is a better place to continue.

To summarize, I had asked about the oil pressure and sludge, and got advice. I have not yet done another oil change, and definitely didn't get the oil pan out because other things have come up.

First, it was running rough when cold, as though it didn't run in all cylinders. I cleaned up the points, and got new spark plugs Autolite 3116. While the plugs were out, I did a compression test. But not with a hot engine (more on that later - gas leak at the sediment bowl) because I took all the gas out of the tank. So, cold engine, and not wide open throttle, I got values mostly around 90 psi, except for cyl 2 on which the compression tester did not hold the pressure.


I asked elsewhere for help, thinking that it might be the valves, or leaky cylinder, but thinking more about it, once the pressure is built up in the compression gauge and tube the only way for it to leak is not through the engine, but most likely at the schrader valve. So the following week I looked for a better compression tester, and got a used mactools kit.

Opened up the intake tube to bypass the air cleaner, set to wide open throttle, good battery, but cold engine. Dry test results:
Cyl 1 120 psi
Cyl 2 118 psi
Cyl 3 110 psi
Cyl 4 100 psi


Wet test on Cyl 4 152 psi. So it's not entirely the valves.

I'm not thrilled about the difference between cyl 1 and 4 (17%) but it's not terrible either.

While the test on a hot engine is what I should do, this also tells me there's probably issues with cyl 4.

The reason I emptied the gas tank is because I had a hole in the sediment bowl assembly and I tried to fix it with the torch, brazing, and it just melted the whole thing! So I ordered another sediment bowl.

Now this doesn't make sense to me. Online all sediment bowls for this tractor have 3/8 thread to the tank. The one that's on the tractor has 5/8! What gives?!
 

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The sediment bowls come in both sizes at our local tractor supply. About $29 I see your in Canada I don't know if you have a local tractor parts store.
You could put in a reducer bushing. You sometimes find differences in parts. Just match what you have.
Once you get all the sludge out and clean fuel run it use it some doing a 5 hour oil change. A few hours of running will let you know what the condition is. You may have some stuck rings that may free up.
Enjoy your tractor.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
No antique tractor supply here, undo. But I had ordered a bowl from eBay and it arrived today.

The threaded section/pipe at the top of the assembly going into the tank is tapered. Measured the very top at 0.655" and the bottom 0.685" which is neither 3/8 nor 5/8. But it looks like the original. Bought it not knowing for sure that it would fit, but looks like it will.



I like this new one, the valve tap seems to close better and it has a top screen with rubber gasket on the edge. Seems to close quite well, hopefully won't leak.

Thanks for the oil change advice, I will do that.

I'd like to bring this tractor to as good a running shape as I can.

This is the old spark plug in the cylinder with the lowest compression, # 4. The other ones weren't so bad.

 

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That sediment bowl thread is probably 3/8 NTP thread which stands for National Tapered Pipe thread. The tapered thread helps it make a seal. The 3/8 measurement is the inside of the pipe. You may want to wrap some Teflon tape on the threads being careful not to leave any out past the end of the thread. Its that white stretchy stuff if your not familiar with it. Two wraps is fine.
That spark plug looks oil soaked like piston rings may be stuck or worn.
You could pour a little diesel fuel onto the spark plug hole and let it soak for a day. Don't put the spark plug back until you have cranked the engine over a couple times to blow out any remaining diesel fuel. Never turn over an engine with spark plug in while you have a liquid in the cylinder.. Don't put the plug back in so you don't forget to blow it out first.

Cleaning up the rings can help but if they are worn it wont really help for long. If the rings are worn getting them cleaned up may actually let more oil in and cause smoke. If its worn sometimes a rebuild is needed. As long its not knocking I would run it for a while. Don't low idle for long periods of time. Throttle up and use it once its running better.
You may have worn valve guides or valve seals letting oil in.
Sometimes old tractors get too much light duty work and just get idle-ed around and carboned up.
That spark plug may be 40 years old.
 

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Throttle up doesn't mean you need to go fast. It can be in first gear. Not knowing your experience. Be careful. Old tractors will kill you. Take it slow if your new. No sharp turns with speed or on a hillside. You can pull it over backwards trying to pull a stump.
You have a high center of gravity. Not intending to lecture. You seem new too tractors.
 

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Can you post some pictures of the tractor. Even if its rusty and dented it has some appeal to this crowd. I'm new to this forum but feel fairly confident saying that. I rotate old tractor pictures as a screen saver. Just got in my blood. This forum isn't as active as the other models.
I have always had I H but recently got a Massey Ferguson.

Iko
I read all your other posts. You are being thorough and that's good.
Using it will tell you more. Clean fuel and oil are first.

There is a way to change valve seals without pulling the head. Using compressed air to the spark plug hole holds the valve against the seat. You have to rotate the engine to make sure each valve is closed as you change them. A really leaky valve could drop.
I have done this a couple times with good results.
Ill bet there is a video of doing this out there.


I didn't watch this video , there are others also
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=changing+valve+seals+with+compressed+air&view=detail&mid=28E72F8EC0A99108344028E72F8EC0A991083440&FORM=VIRE

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Valve Stem Seal Replacement with compressed air&qs=n&form=QBVR&sp=-1&pq=valve stem seal replacement with compressed air&sc=0-47&sk=&cvid=8050396FDC8E4EF6B760DBF399709ED3
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Here are some pictures. Although it has been somewhat neglected before me, I like it a lot.

I really wanted a loader.



Here next to its little brother from another mother.





 

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Discussion Starter #8
Alright, I'm back. Been busy doing my truck timing belt for the last few days, but now it's finished.

That sediment bowl thread is probably 3/8 NTP thread which stands for National Tapered Pipe thread. The tapered thread helps it make a seal. The 3/8 measurement is the inside of the pipe.
Ah, wow. I'd have thought that the more important spec would be the thread. In any case the inner diameter is 1/8.

You may want to wrap some Teflon tape on the threads being careful not to leave any out past the end of the thread. Its that white stretchy stuff if your not familiar with it. Two wraps is fine.
Yes, I've used teflon tape occasionally on my boat on some fuel connections.

That spark plug looks oil soaked like piston rings may be stuck or worn.
In a way I wish the rings are stuck, as there's a chance to get them unstuck, less work than re-ring.

You could pour a little diesel fuel onto the spark plug hole and let it soak for a day. Don't put the spark plug back until you have cranked the engine over a couple times to blow out any remaining diesel fuel. Never turn over an engine with spark plug in while you have a liquid in the cylinder.. Don't put the plug back in so you don't forget to blow it out first.
Will do that. Would seafoam work better than diesel fuel? Or some sort of penetrating spray?

Cleaning up the rings can help but if they are worn it wont really help for long. If the rings are worn getting them cleaned up may actually let more oil in and cause smoke. If its worn sometimes a rebuild is needed. As long its not knocking I would run it for a while. Don't low idle for long periods of time. Throttle up and use it once its running better.
You may have worn valve guides or valve seals letting oil in.
Sometimes old tractors get too much light duty work and just get idle-ed around and carboned up.
That spark plug may be 40 years old.
I doubt the spark plug is that old, it's a Champion D21.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Throttle up doesn't mean you need to go fast. It can be in first gear. Not knowing your experience. Be careful. Old tractors will kill you. Take it slow if your new. No sharp turns with speed or on a hillside. You can pull it over backwards trying to pull a stump.
You have a high center of gravity. Not intending to lecture. You seem new too tractors.

Yes, it's my first tractor so your advice is much appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I have always had I H but recently got a Massey Ferguson.
Which MF and how do you like it? For me it was sheer luck to get this tractor. There's some stuff I want done and need a loader, so I got the cheapest functional tractor with a loader that was on the market, from a collector, a very nice fellow, that had about 20 different Massey Harris/Ferguson and the 33 was a duplicate.

Iko
I read all your other posts. You are being thorough and that's good.
Using it will tell you more. Clean fuel and oil are first.

There is a way to change valve seals without pulling the head. Using compressed air to the spark plug hole holds the valve against the seat. You have to rotate the engine to make sure each valve is closed as you change them. A really leaky valve could drop.
I have done this a couple times with good results.
Ill bet there is a video of doing this out there.


I didn't watch this video , there are others also
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=changing+valve+seals+with+compressed+air&view=detail&mid=28E72F8EC0A99108344028E72F8EC0A991083440&FORM=VIRE

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Valve Stem Seal Replacement with compressed air&qs=n&form=QBVR&sp=-1&pq=valve stem seal replacement with compressed air&sc=0-47&sk=&cvid=8050396FDC8E4EF6B760DBF399709ED3
Don't quite understand how the seal can be changed without pulling the head, but will search the procedure online.
 

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Nice looking 33. It looks to be in pretty good shape to me. I have its big brother, the 44,
that we use to move rolled hay on a wagon from one side of the farm to the other and pulling odd stuff around from time to time. it gets the duty of pulling folks around, on our yearly fall hayride as well. I personally think they are tough old tractors, and don't think it will take a whole lot to get it lined out the way you want it. congratulations on finding it. Thanks for posting the pictures. Keep us posted on the progress.
 

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Which MF and how do you like it? For me it was sheer luck to get this tractor. There's some stuff I want done and need a loader, so I got the cheapest functional tractor with a loader that was on the market, from a collector, a very nice fellow, that had about 20 different Massey Harris/Ferguson and the 33 was a duplicate.



Don't quite understand how the seal can be changed without pulling the head, but will search the procedure online.
I have a Massey Ferguson 203 industrial with a backhoe
Its new to me and I haven't even got to use it. I have been doing neglected maintenance and repairs. The other day the engine dropped a sleeve into the pan. Now the engine needs rebuilt. You never know what your gonna get. Forrest Gump.
I had been trying to diagnose an engine noise. now I know.
RJ's post reminded me I did own a Massey Harris 44. An old tricycle with no 3 point and rotting tires. I trades it off pretty quick. I needed a three point.

That's a useful tractor with that loader. And yes seafoam or carb. cleaner would also work. I suggested diesel fuel because I'm an old-timer and we always had some on hand. It works pretty good as a solvent and has some oil in it.
If you use a carburetor cleaner squirt a little oil in the cylinder to lubricate it on start up. You are loosening up carbon deposits that can be abrasive loosened up.
Start it up outside its going too blow junk out of the exhaust

Changing valve seals with the head on. The compressed air holds the valve against the seat. You use a lever type spring compressor to compress the valve spring and remove the keepers. Then you change the seal and put the spring back on and move to the next.
On a v8 it can save a lot of work. On your tractor pulling the head is quick and easy and probably the better way to go for replacing seals.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Looked up the 203 Industrial, very nice tractor. Sorry to hear you need to rebuild that engine. Indeed, buying used you never know what you can expect, no matter how careful you are. Great thing that it has a backhoe, something I'd have liked very much but it's not something I could afford at the moment.

Found info on replacing the seals, very easy it seems. Ordered seals already. Something strange though, the parts manual only lists seals for the intake valves. So the exhaust valves don't have seals.

Oh, and I found the specs for the 3/8 NPT

Screen Shot 2020-02-21 at 3.13.06 PM.png
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Nice looking 33. It looks to be in pretty good shape to me. I have its big brother, the 44,
that we use to move rolled hay on a wagon from one side of the farm to the other and pulling odd stuff around from time to time. it gets the duty of pulling folks around, on our yearly fall hayride as well. I personally think they are tough old tractors, and don't think it will take a whole lot to get it lined out the way you want it. congratulations on finding it. Thanks for posting the pictures. Keep us posted on the progress.
Thank you R.J.! The gentleman who sold me the 33 also had a 44 for sale, but now loader on it.

My 33 didn't come with a 3 pt hitch, and my understanding is that they are pretty rare. I might have liked that, but it wasn't to be.
 

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Most of the early 33's and 44's didn't come with 3 points or hydraulics. Some came with mechanical lifts or hand lifts for cultivators. They were focusing at the time on equipment that ran off the belt pulley, or that could be used to be pulled behind, on the draw bar.
The man that bought our 44 new, bought it to mainly run a wheat thrasher off a belt, as its primary duty.
The 33 and 44 at the time, were produced to compete with the farmall model H, and the Farmall Model M. If you pull them up side by side, there are a lot of similarities. Both were great tractors in their heyday.
 

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You see that 3/8 NTP outside shows .680 which is 11/1/6 close to that 5/8 measurement you first gave. The inside diameter of your fuel bowl is different than a pipe would be because its a cast part.
NTP pipe fittings sizes are deceiving by appearance. Its a good sealing thread for hydraulics of high and low pressure. In working with tractors common plumbing is NTP, JIC and pipe with an o ring or flare.
Compression fittings are good for fuel line repairs. Brake lines double as fuel line with flare fittings.
Your tractor may be pre JIC Fittings.
Here is a website I use for my hydraulic needs.

Iko I know your hydraulics are basic on the 33 but just some information for future use.


https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/
I got carried away.:boredom:

I was in the dumps about my engine needing a rebuild but am now looking forward to having a fresh engine. I plan on digging ditches to install a ground source heat pump system plumbing. My son will handle the above ground part...

Valve seals are basically an umbrella to keep oil from running down the stem. Some are an o-rings. Some didn't have exhaust seals. I'm guessing they wanted some oil to run down and lubricate the stem. you could probably fit some for the exhaust valves.

If you can get your tractor running at its best per its condition you can use it and later pick an opertune time and rebuild it. It can be a rewarding experience. Very basic engines.
They will run for years with worn parts. Ticking can be expected. No knocking allowed.

Iko
buy a mechanics stethoscope. Its interesting what you hear. and usefull for locating problems. About 10 bucks.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
In fact I just got a mechanic stethoscope.

I now have a stupid me problem. When I was working on cleaning the original sediment bowl assembly I took it to my office and used electrolysis. So I took out the brass valve and the brass outlet fitting. Somehow this elbow just disappeared. Can't, for the life of me, find it. Even worse, can't find specs or a place that carries it.

Steiner has some type of sediment bowl fitting for 5/16 tube, but no idea what thread size.
 

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In fact I just got a mechanic stethoscope.

I now have a stupid me problem. When I was working on cleaning the original sediment bowl assembly I took it to my office and used electrolysis. So I took out the brass valve and the brass outlet fitting. Somehow this elbow just disappeared. Can't, for the life of me, find it. Even worse, can't find specs or a place that carries it.

Steiner has some type of sediment bowl fitting for 5/16 tube, but no idea what thread size.
Most sediment bowl fittings have an 1/8" NTP outlet. Below is a link to a sediment bowl outlet. 1/8 male ntp to 1/4 tube.
This is most likely the fitting you need. It says John Deer but that's a generic fitting.
https://www.steinertractor.com/JDS1725?crawlparam&msclkid=47f8e043fb721490ca61be1341d18faf&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=(ROI) Shopping - PT&utm_term=4584482451756154&utm_content=All Products

One way to be sure is to go to a hardware store or plumbing supply with your sediment bowl in hand. Test a 1/8 NTP pipe thread into the outlet.
If your fuel line is tubing the link is most likely your needed fitting.
The fitting in the link is a common hardware store fitting, not special for tractors.
If your fuel line is rubber you should need 1/8" male NPT to 1/4" barbed.
Like this
https://www.ebay.com/itm/192252104327

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-8-NPT-Male-1-4-Hose-ID-Brass-Barbed-Male-Elbow-Fittings-Pack-of-3/192287249849?_trkparms=aid=1110002&algo=SPLICE.SOI&ao=1&asc=225073&meid=acd498446fa2481a9d2336250d5ac003&pid=100008&rk=5&rkt=12&sd=192252104327&itm=192287249849&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2047675&algv=PromotedSellersOtherItemsV2&brand=Unbranded&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219


You put that lost fitting somewhere special so you wouldn't loose it. That's my favorite way to loose things. I eventually find them after I have replaced it.
 

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Your fuel line could also be 3/16 tube. That fitting is also common.

I noticed the e-bay links i gave were shipping from china. They are available U.S. or Canada
 
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